Abuse or anger?

Something I’ve experienced a few times already in engagements is what some people call abuse.

Knowing the feminist lens through which people view male-female interaction in the West, I know better than to take the word “abuse” at face value.

What is abusive behavior though?  This is what people have told me a former fiance, and now my current one, have done to be “abusive” toward me:

  • Displaying extreme anger via shouting, cuss words (which I don’t use nor do I like), and Mel Gibson-style storming around
  • Blaming me for things out of my control (e.g., things my parents or friends do)
  • Insulting me in terms of how I look, my age
  • Making threats of leaving the relationship if I don’t change

I don’t see the above necessarily as abuse.  I think it’s more a personality thing.

Or someone trying to coerce someone into doing something when they haven’t been successful through reason and other means.

Or someone not quite sure why they want out of the situation so instead creating a smokescreen of anger about some perceived “big issue.”

It’s interesting.  Hearing the Mel Gibson tapes, I would say he was very threatening at parts – it was the fact that he referred to physical violence so explicitly that made think yeah, he went too far.

But in my case?  Not so sure.

I just know that I am so over it – male anger, that is.  I’ve gone through it before, it was one of the factors in the dissolution of an engagement… and it also is good because it shows you a person’s value system from a perspective you may not always experience.

So let’s see if this engagement of mine dissolves as well.. *sigh* It’s about to become a recurring joke.  I think because I’ve been engaged so many times, I’m kind of blase if another one bites the dust. Story of my life really.

And I’ve had so many misgiving about the provider side of the person I’m to marry, it’s even easier for me to accept that ending things would be OK.  Sure, it might take me a precious year (of youth) to get over the tears and baggage, I have my moments of intense longing. But it’s nothing that time, reflection, meditation, acceptance, prayer, and self-improvement wouldn’t heal at some point.

I put this situation in God’s hands; He may do as he sees fit, and let its destiny unfold as it should.

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25 Responses to “Abuse or anger?”

  1. Linkage is Good for You: White is Right Edition (NSFW) Says:

    [...] LovelySexyBeauty – “Abuse or Anger?” [...]

  2. dana Says:

    much of what is termed “abuse” is merely “masculinity”

    When a man threatens force and DOESN’T use it–he is PLEADING with you to see how much you are hurting him and how GOOD he is being to you by NOT physically harming you in retaliation–because he knows he could utterly destroy you and his chemicals are telling him to. Women routinely engage in behaviors that would constitute “fightin’ words” between men and would lead to physical violence. they insult men, stare them down, raise their voice, even go so far as to hit the men.

    that anyone couldn’t hear the devastating pain in mel gibson’s tirades, the sense of betrayal and hurt is astonishing to me–it was proof women have no ability to understand male nature and male emotional makeup.

  3. thetimes Says:

    Sorry to hear this.

    I’m guessing you are sikh and your fiance is muslim. Stress.

  4. Dylan Says:

    What a strange thing to guess thetimes.

    Sorry to hear this lsb. If you can’t handle his anger/abuse, now is the time to let it go and move on.

    Yes, a woman’s prime years are in her youth, but that doesn’t mean you have to settle for a dysfunctional relationship just because you’re a bit older. You might not catch a super alpha now, but you should at least find someone who doesn’t lash out at you at least. A healthy relationship where you can communicate effectively should be priority number one.

    Some of those things on your list should get your alarm bells ringing (“Insulting me in terms of how I look, my age”???!). Not cool.

  5. Hope Says:

    Those are all red flags.

    My ex had some of those same issues, particularly anger, yelling and blaming. It got really bad, and I still have nightmares sometimes about it. I should have walked after the fight in college when he yelled at me in public and somebody called the cops. But I was young, naive and foolish.

    With my husband it is totally different. I don’t have fights with him at all. He never yells at me, EVER. Of course I never yell at him either. No nagging, no insults, no arguments. We talk to each other like civilized adults, in loving playful tones, or joking and sweet voices, or even just heart to heart talks. Never the kind of bickering you see on TV or in movies all the time these days.

    I do think that sometimes the abuse is the woman’s fault, and I know in my last relationship I was not perfect. It takes two to fight, and all that. But the man also influences the woman, leads her and sets an example. My husband would never tolerate an unhealthy relationship, and I respect him a great deal for that. He was the one who set me straight the few times I got a bit too upset.

    It doesn’t really matter the label you put on it. If abuse sounds too dire, then call it negative patterns. I endured it for many years and finally got out not too long ago. In the process I also changed my own behavior and thought processes to that of a more mature and emotionally healthier person. And I can honestly say that the positive, healthy relationship dynamic is awesome.

  6. Gunslingergregi Says:

    ””””’With my husband it is totally different. I don’t have fights with him at all. ”””””

    ”””My husband would never tolerate an unhealthy relationship, and I respect him a great deal for that. He was the one who set me straight the few times I got a bit too upset.”””’

    Lets keep it real hope your a screaming schrew and yea any woman that yells at a man should be left instantly because all she is looking for is a beatdown.

  7. Gunslingergregi Says:

    I don’t really yell I mean when first wife didn’t live up to her end I just told her to get out I wanted another woman.

    No woman is gonna disrespect me as a man like a man and get away with it though.

    So if you want to be equal then be equal if you want to be a woman you better learn how to be a woman.

  8. Gunslingergregi Says:

    Yea I wouldn’t be with a chick who could yell at me.

    So yea.

    Have you given up the pussy yet to the dude?

    I mean I would imagine a prolonged engagement would be some wierd shit if not hitting the pussy.

    I mean you realize that fucking is kind of abusive and yet woman love it right?

  9. Hope Says:

    Your use of present tense is incorrect, gunslinger. People change and grow, particularly past their teenage years. I did say I used to yell, but the ex did more than his share of screaming. As I said, unhealthy. Difference is that I was a lot younger. He was closer to 30, and I was only a teenager. I was also only 15 when I met him.

    Yelling, screaming, throwing tirades and being basically out of control are child-like actions, signs of immaturity, entitled thinking, and selfishness. Adults don’t engage in those sorts of behavior. Children who never grow up do. My husband who is almost a decade younger than my ex is the adult.

    Adults talk to each other in measured tones, compromise on differences, communicate straightforwardly, and discipline themselves without needing others to constantly remind them of what they should or should not do. A grown man would not behave like a little bratty teenage boy, stomping around, or trying to be threatening.

    Also, mature adult men don’t talk to other women the way you just did to lsb. But this isn’t my blog. Personally, I would not tolerate such a disrespectful and rude commenter.

  10. aoefe Says:

    LSB I’m sorry to hear your difficulties. I don’t have a clue about him, but be careful, it doesn’t sound great. I like a man who can keep the ‘hand’ in the relationship. Dana’s man does this for sure. She loves him for it and she knows she’s deserved some of his anger for pushing him. However if a man attacks your self worth in order for what, to make himself feel superior, that’s an issue. I’m pretty sure Dana’s guy knows he’s a man and has no need to demolish Dana to feel it.

    You will have to examine the motives of your guy for doing what he does. Also you will have to look closely at your own behavior and see if any of it is warranted. Difficult to do because you can’t be objective.

    Thinking bout’ you.

    aoefe

  11. sdaedalus Says:

    The only thing I’m going to say is that if this is happening pre-marriage, it’s unlikely to improve after marriage. In fact, it might well get worse. Planning a wedding is stressful, but so is life. In fact, the one advantage, as I see it, of a big formal wedding is that you get the chance to see how the person you’re marrying reacts to stress. It’s a sort of shit-test (but a damned expensive one – reaction to stress probably could be tested in other ways more effectively and without wasting as much money!). Of course, a lot of partners in a marriage blow off steam occasionally, and it doesn’t do any harm. The question you have to ask yourself, can you live with this? on the basis that it’s going to be much the same after marriage.

  12. Renee Says:

    Dana,

    much of what is termed “abuse” is merely “masculinity”

    Seriously??? I’m all about appreciating masculinity, but I think you missed the mark on this one.

    When a man threatens force and DOESN’T use it–he is PLEADING with you to see how much you are hurting him and how GOOD he is being to you by NOT physically harming you in retaliation–because he knows he could utterly destroy you and his chemicals are telling him to.

    So if I’m in a relationship, we get in a fight and my boyfriend threatens physical violence, I’m not supposed to be worried because it’s “masculinity”? I should risk my safety on the possibility that he won’t carry out what he threatened? A man or woman shouldn’t threaten force to get his point across.
    —————————–

    I’m sorry you’re going through such a hard time LSB. To me the relationship doesn’t seem healthy at all. For the most part, I too don’t think that what your significant other is doing is abusive.

    I think that the least you both should do is consider taking a break from each other.

    You’ll be in my prayers :)
    Just my two cents.

  13. dana Says:

    these are red flags lsb

    red flags you are vying with him for dominance–check your premises

  14. Are You Being Abused, or Are You Vying With a Man for Dominance | Minarchy Says:

    [...] You Being Abused, or Are You Vying With a Man for Dominance Posted on 08/19/2010 by dana Lovely Sexy Beauty has recently posted a list of behaviors her man* is displaying in their relationship, and that apparently OTHER men in [...]

  15. Brit Says:

    And I quote…….

    “Displaying extreme anger via shouting, cuss words (which I don’t use nor do I like), and Mel Gibson-style storming around” – Were you listening to him BEFORE he had to shout? Or did you react on his complaints to further assert yourself and your “rights”

    “Blaming me for things out of my control (e.g., things my parents or friends do)” – Are these people acting in an unacceptable manner, to which you rush to defend? Are you choosing them over him?

    “Insulting me in terms of how I look, my age” – How do you look, are you saving the goods for his eyes only, or are you parked out on front street for the world to see….Are you acting responsible to your age, or displaying the games of a 20 year old, applying the rules of an age you no longer are? Of course, these are assumptions on my part, as you were so vague about the situations.

    These are all vague examples of his “faults”….you forgot to round out the equation….

    “So let’s see if this engagement of mine dissolves as well.. *sigh* It’s about to become a recurring joke. I think because I’ve been engaged so many times, I’m kind of blase if another one bites the dust. Story of my life really.” – STOP IT, stop it right now. Take some personal responsibility here, maybe your expectations are based in a fantastical image of marriage and partnership. It’s almost as if you believe yourself to be floating through life, bumping into “Man-Beasts” and hoping some guy will magically understand what you want, regardless of the actual needs of men and women.
    I would have felt more for you if the point of your initial writing was about self-discovery and what you learned about you. So far, all I see is blame and misunderstanding of your own role.

  16. Hope Says:

    It takes two to fight. That’s something I said. I don’t know her situation specifically, but I do think that jumping down her throat without saying there are issues on his side as well is wrong. The man is not always culpable, sure, but when he behaves in that manner it is a bad sign. If he can’t handle a bratty woman without blowing up, how is he going to handle a bratty kid without raging?

    Here’s an example. My husband’s stepfather is a very manly man, and his mother is a bit bitchy and naggy sometimes. When she gets like that — he doesn’t yell at her, insult her, or storm around in a rage. He becomes quiet. He leaves. He doesn’t treat her with the loving affection he usually does. That’s the punishment, and it’s VERY effective, especially prolonged. My husband was raised by this man, and he doesn’t yell either.

  17. gunslingergregi Says:

    Plus once you get up into higher management guess what you don’t get coddled anymore. (well ok if your white)

    There ain’t no womanly shit.

    There is just results and being fired.

    You either have your shit together or you don’t.

    If you don’t bye bye.

    It ain’t the nice that get to the top.

    It is some hardcore nasty motherfuckers who will break people down with truth.

    No concern for feelings at all.

    Just facts.

    Why I try to practice to be at top by just slamming motherfucking truth on people and watching them fucking bend.

    But yea. Try officer in army you ain’t coddled with no kid gloves you are fucking screamed at if you fuck up. Which yea enlisted doesn’t see.

    You just have no clue the kind of work environment men can deal with and then you want to call it abuse lol

    What do you think happens in the upper echelons of business. It ain’t playing with posies all fucking day.

    Your making descisions on peoples livelyhood every fucking day. You want pressure that is pressure. You want stress that is stress.

    Then you also got to worry about some bitch getting her fucking feelings hurt that isn’t producing.

    Then you got to worry about minority fucking concerns and shit.

    You have not even come close to fucking being at the level of real stress yet.

    Life is to funny for words really. No wonder companies getting the fuck out of dodge too.

    Woman want to be coddled 24/7 and act like they sacrificing and equal.

    I don’t yell either at all. But that is part of the problem of me not making it into upper management. So yea I got to work on that he he he

    ””””Also, mature adult men don’t talk to other women the way you just did to lsb. But this isn’t my blog. Personally, I would not tolerate such a disrespectful and rude commenter.””””

    hope I was kicking the truth to you just like I am kicking it to lsb.

    Not rude not disrespectfull the truth.

    I like lsb I don’t like you hope because you are completely incincere. (faking it totally)

    Did ya see where she thanked me for kicking truth.
    Yea it hurts but it helps.

    So yea hope you can’t tolerate the truth just like most woman but the only thing that will set you free is the truth.

  18. gunslingergregi Says:

    So basically hope the truth is that you were yelling at your current husband already. So how did he handle that?

    Might help other men deal with a female yeller.

  19. gunslingergregi Says:

    ””””Here’s an example. My husband’s stepfather is a very manly man, and his mother is a bit bitchy and naggy sometimes. When she gets like that — he doesn’t yell at her, insult her, or storm around in a rage. He becomes quiet. He leaves. He doesn’t treat her with the loving affection he usually does. That’s the punishment, and it’s VERY effective, especially prolonged. My husband was raised by this man, and he doesn’t yell either.””””

    Oh I see the man is just supposed to get quiet and accept that the female is a bitchy harridan. Ok so that is why he takes your abuse with quiet internal fortitude and just buries the pain.

    Hey however it works for you. I have seen a lot of guys like that. Getting yelled at by their wives in public and they just take it like it is a normal part of day.

  20. Hope Says:

    You’re so full of BS gunslinger.

    Truth? You think you know me, who I am and my life via my comments alone? I don’t claim to know jack squat about you. Yet you think by virtue of my being female and daring to disagree with you, I am automatically “insincere.”

    I’ve never yelled at my husband. Never screamed at him. Never cussed at him. I trust him. I respect him. I’d take a bullet in the chest for him. I’m bearing his child in my womb. I love him more than words can express. I would never treat him poorly. He is the light of my life, the savior of my soul, the most amazing man I’ve ever known.

    The only time he has “dealt” with me was when I was depressed and sad over a year ago. I still didn’t yell at him. I was just being emotional and cry-y over insignificant things that he was doing, and being distant. Consequently he also behaved in an aloof and distant manner. Being that we are so emotionally connected to each other, this hurt us both a lot. But guess what? We didn’t scream, throw things, threaten to punch the other, or any of that. He came home after being away for most of the day, I apologized tearfully, and we made up. That was the last time we “had a fight.” Over a year and half ago.

    Now, do you still want to proclaim boldly that you have the sole grasp on “truth” in this world?

  21. Hope Says:

    Everybody who actually knows us and has seen my husband and I interact says that we’re a really cute and loving couple. His father, over the weekend at the camping trip, says that we renewed his belief in love.

    We never disparage or insult each other, publically or privately. I have no reason except to tell the truth (hello anonymous Internets), and as I have previously written, we have a healthy relationship. It seems like you can’t even imagine it. You twist every word I write to imagine some scenario in which he is some henpecked poor husband having to endure such horrors from me. Yeah, sorry to disappoint.

  22. gunslingergregi Says:

    ”””””
    Hope Says:

    August 19, 2010 at 11:29 am | Reply
    You’re so full of BS gunslinger.
    ”””””
    I just read what you write. he he he
    Sometimes I wish I didn’t have to.

    Well that other stuff sounds ok hopefully keeps up.

    The truth is we all have to lie a little or none of us would be here on the planet.

  23. thetimes Says:

    My gut feeling – lsb’s next post will say the engagement is off.

  24. Jonathan Says:

    Do your friends really think it’s abusive for him to make threats of leaving the relationship if you don’t change?

    I bet they advised you to leave the relationship if he doesn’t change that.

  25. Chic Noir Says:

    Could you handle being married to someone like this lsd for the rest of your life?
    Is this the same guy who asked you to perform in a 3-way tristz?

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